14 Takeaways from the Virtual Pacific APA (guest post)


As reported in January, the American Philosophical Association (APA) recently began—and halted—an experiment with making one of its three divisional meetings each year a wholly-online conference.

The experiment with online meetings was prompted largely by a campaign by Philosophers for Sustainability. The Central Division conference in 2025 was held online. This year, the Pacific Division meeting was held online.

However, the decision to end the experiment was made prior to this year’s Pacific Division meeting.

Colin Marshall was the Program Chair for this online version of the Pacific Division’s meeting. In the following guest post, he shares his reflections on the conference and on it having “been declared a failure before it even started.”


14 Takeaways from the Virtual Pacific APA
by Colin Marshall

I had the honor of serving as Program Chair for this year’s Pacific APA conference, which was held online. The experience was rewarding. It was also eye-opening—especially in light of the APA’s decision to cancel the virtual, ‘2+1’, experiment early.

Over the past few months, the virtual APA has been a topic of some intense discussions. I learned a lot from conversations with APA staff, volunteers, participants in the conference, and non-participants. It seems to me that we are at a choice point in our discipline, so I wanted to share a few thoughts.

To start, here’s some background about how the 2+1 experiment came about. The late Helen De Cruz proposed the 2+1 model back in 2021. Her idea was to have one of the APA’s three divisional meetings online, rotating between different divisions from year to year. Philosophers for Sustainability then launched a petition in favor of the model, which gathered about 700 signatures. After an APA-led survey of membership in September of 2021 and divisional votes in favor of the model (at conference business meetings), the APA announced that it would conduct a three-year experiment, starting in 2025. Those of us involved in the 2+1 campaign were impressed by the APA’s responsiveness to their membership. News about the decision spread to other organizations and groups, such as the interdisciplinary ‘FlyingLess’ initiative.

At that point, the APA convened a task force around the virtual conferences. At least one member of that task force, who I was in touch with, soon became concerned. The task force met infrequently, lacked representation from grad students and other key constituencies, and was not provided with important budget information that some members requested. Many suggestions from the task force received no uptake, or couldn’t be implemented because of inadequate support. In retrospect, this was a sign that while some members of APA leadership were willing to give the 2+1 model a real try, others were not.

The first virtual APA launched in 2025 for the Central Division, with Helen De Cruz serving as Program Chair. Unfortunately, Helen had to step down for health reasons, and several members of the Program Committee effectively stopped contributing. Much of that work was then taken up by the Central Division’s then Secretary-Treasurer, Chloe Armstrong. Chloe and the more dedicated Program Committee members managed to pull things together with a heroic amount of work, and other APA staff put in many hours to make the conference function. But the negative effects were felt: the schedule was released very late, which almost certainly impacted participation and registration.

The second virtual APA was planned for the Pacific Division, and I agreed to serve as chair. Like almost everyone, I was already spread thin with other commitments, but nobody with more bandwidth was willing to take it on (even with an excellent Program Committee mostly in place). I quickly found that Alex Sager, the Pacific’s Secretary-Treasurer, was great: organized, patient, and really invested in making a good conference. Alex was slightly dismayed when the number of submissions to the conference came in lower than average, but he also pointed out that this made more room for invited sessions. Things seemed to be on track.

Then I learned that, based on a narrow vote at the Eastern Executive Committee meeting, the 2+1 experiment was being cancelled early—with our lower submission numbers being cited as a key justification. The Central and Pacific Executive Committees then voted similarly. For me and many others, this was both surprising and deflating. The APA had gone back on its stated plan without any broad discussion among members. On a more personal level, it felt like our conference had been declared a failure before it even started. Even so, Alex, the Program Committee, and I pressed on. And, if I may say so, we put on a pretty damn good conference.

The below takeaways emerged as I grappled with all this. Many of these thoughts came out of conversations with other people, though nobody but me is to blame for any mistakes.

  1. APA staff and volunteers work really I got to see the incredible work by all the APA staff, including Alex Sager, Jenna Donohue, Mike Morris, Erin Shepherd, and Amy Ferrer. Getting the conference together takes months of work, but there is also hyper-intensive work during the conference—where we had almost instantaneous responses to technical problems. The conference’s registration fees help support (modest) salaries for Alex and others, but they are all clearly committed to doing their jobs well. On the volunteer side, the Program Committee put in many, many hours of refereeing, emailing, and other forms of organizing, and various other people stepped up at key points to organize Watch Parties, cover empty conference slots, and help in other ways. I put in a fair number of hours myself, but other people worked much harder.
  2. An online APA can get a decent turnout. After the APA declared the end of 2+1, I was worried that the Pacific’s registration numbers would suffer—who’d register for a conference after its host organization stated it was a failure? Even so, about 800 people registered for the Pacific, and there were 16 official Watch Parties (plus some unofficial ones run by people on the program). No doubt, there are real questions to be asked about financial viability, since the last in-person Pacific brought in more than 1100 people, and the online 2025 Central had about 900 people. But still, even after the APA’s vote of no confidence, our conference wasn’t a flop.
  3. The best-attended sessions were often the least traditional ones. The standard colloquium (i.e., refereed submission) sessions I attended typically brought in around 6 people, while standard invited sessions often brought in a dozen or two. However, the sessions with non-traditional formats and topics were easily the best attended. More than 70 Zoom participants joined for the “Being Trans in Philosophy” session—though the number of people watching was higher, since at least 5 parties tuned in for that. Similarly, the memorial session for Helen De Cruz had over 50 Zoom participants (plus Watch Parties). These sessions weren’t just non-traditional, they also spoke to the concerns of many people who face extra challenges at joining in-person conferences. One of the speakers at the “Being Trans in Philosophy” session noted that the virtual APAs had been a “lifeline” for philosophers who cannot safely travel at our current sociopolitical moment. In many of those sessions, I also noted that much of the discussion happened through the chat function on Zoom, with people sharing resources and discussing the issues without trying to claim the floor.
  4. A novel format invites creativity. The virtual format also inspired non-traditional elements outside of colloquia and symposia. Kelly Weirich designed some terrific conference swag. Roy Chamorro designed a genuinely fun reception on the Gathertown platform. Joe Stratman and I organized some online office hours with senior Kant scholars, in collaboration with the North American Kant Society. Alex Sager and Mike Nelson put together some lightning and less formal workshops that added further dimensions to the conference.
  5. A good virtual conference is a rush. When you’re committed to really being there for most of the day, a virtual conference is a rush: a chance to learn about cutting-edge work in various topics, opportunities to connect with people you may or may not know, and (via Watch Parties) a chance to enjoy sessions together with others on your side of the screen.
  6. We’re overdue for better, discipline-wide norms around engaging presentations. The online format really drives home how inaccessible most talks are for many people. Unless a talk is squarely in an area you specialize in, it’s hard to follow someone reading their paper at you. Many presenters did amazing work with slides, short presentations, and other tricks. But our discipline really could set better norms. I suspect we haven’t made enough progress on that because, at in person conferences, people put up with the sessions for the sake of other things (like getting a drink with old friends). Even so, we academic philosophers could use more opportunities to develop our presentational skills. This came out with the Watch Party I organized for my department: some Watch Party sessions were noticeably more accessible than others for our undergrads (Pat Churchland’s Dewey lecture was highly accessible, and spawned a great discussion afterwards). So I stand by the 2026 Pacific being a success, but it’s also clear to me that things could be made even better.
  7. A different fee structure probably would have helped the APA’s bottom line. Money is a sticking point. The registration fees for the APA were more than 10% higher this year than last. There were some limited fee waivers and assistance funds. But a faculty member who did not notice, did not qualify, or did not apply in time had to pay $225 (if they were an APA member) or $350 (if they were not). In the three weeks before the conference, I received a barrage of emails asking about this, and many people simply dropped out of the program in protest. Often those protests came from philosophers outside North America, or those with limited resources—the very people who had been excited about getting to participate in an APA. The APA does offer income-sensitive tiers for membership dues, but an online APA might draw in most of its participants from people who aren’t members.
  8. The APA should explore subsidizing virtual conferences. In a recent essay, Miroslav Imbrisevic pointed out that the APA could have opened a discussion about subsidizing virtual APAs with fees from the in-person ones and membership fees. On reflection, I think this is right. Consider other mechanisms for making institutions more inclusive. Making a building ADA-compliant can be expensive, and we don’t expect the beneficiaries to shoulder those costs. How best to do this is an open question, but it is within the APA’s power.
  9. Some philosophers evaluated the virtual APAs using the wrong comparison. Economics aside, I’ve been part of many discussions about whether the pros of online conferences outweigh the cons. But I realized that there are two pro/con comparisons to make, and many people seem to focus on the less important one. The less important comparison is whether virtual APAs are better for people who can attend both in-person and virtual (people in that category have a range of reactions). The more important comparison, though, is whether virtual APAs are better for people who can’t attend in-person ones. Why is the latter more important? Mainly because those groups are often the ones who are excluded from other dimensions of society, or who face other challenges and constraints (including caregiving obligations). After all, the US is currently a dangerous place to travel to and within for many people.
  10. Small-scale online events are no substitute for divisional meetings. I’ve heard that the APA is planning to develop small online events that are alternatives to the APA. This is important, and I know that it comes from a real commitment to inclusiveness among APA leadership. Still, the fact stands that the divisional meetings are the real core of the APA. People who attend those are marked as really belonging, and presenters get a line on their CV that almost any hiring committee will value. Smaller-scale events can only offer a feeling of peripheral membership and a less valuable CV line—again, to people who are often marginalized in other ways.
  11. The APA’s default is to serve (comparatively) privileged US professors. It’s clear to me now (partly based on #6 and #9 above) that our divisional conference format and the structure of divisional leadership were developed by and intended for relatively privileged philosophers within the US (for whom travel isn’t a big deal). It’s also largely sustained by that group, since tenured professors with lower teaching loads (like me) can make time to serve in APA leadership. Many people within the APA have done great work trying to bring in other groups—this is clear from the list of the APA’s official committees. But the decision by the executive committees to end the 2+1 experiment drives home where the real power is within the organization.
  12. The APA is in a difficult position. I don’t envy anyone in APA leadership. The organization is trying to serve many different groups of philosophers, some of whom have incompatible preferences. Many people within the APA are genuinely trying to do what’s right, even when it’s not financially optimal. But any decision the APA makes about virtual conferencing will make hundreds of philosophers upset, and we philosophers can be pretty self-righteous and nasty. That being said…
  13. Cancelling the 2+1 experiment early sent a troubling message. By canceling the online APAs earlier than planned, without any further surveys, invitations for discussion, or consideration of other fee structures, the APA unintentionally sent a specific message to philosophers for whom in-person APAs aren’t an option. That message was: “You’re not worth it. We’ve only started exploring the options for virtual conferences, but it wasn’t immediately a financial success, so we’re giving up on trying to include you.” (To be clear: I don’t believe any individual within the APA intended to send that message. But that’s the message that emerged.)
  14. I think I’m done with the APA (for now). My current 3-year membership package ends in November, and I’m not planning on renewing it. There are four reasons for this. First, I still feel stung by the preemptive declaration that the conference I was working on was a failure (I know this is immature, but I can’t shake the feeling). Second, APA membership is expensive, even for a tenured professor at an R1 university. Third, my family obligations make it hard for me to travel often, so I rarely attend in-person APA meetings—without those, my membership is just a charitable donation (to be evaluated against other charities). Fourth and finally, I’ve realized that the APA’s overall commitments to inclusiveness, sustainability, and democratic processes are uneven. None of this is set in stone, and I know that some people within the APA are personally committed to all those things. So I hope that the APA changes course again, as (I know) many of its members would like it to.
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Kian Mintz-Woo
2 days ago

Thanks for these really interesting reflections. I attended the virtual APA Pacific and enjoyed it very much–so thanks to you and everyone who contributed to its success. But it’s definitely a shame that the 2+1 campaign is ending early. I think there was a huge potential audience (basically, tons of philosophers outside North America), and they didn’t have enough time to learn it was a possibility before the experiment was cancelled. But it is also worth saying that I appreciate the APA even trying the experiment, even if they ended it early.

Jake Wright
Jake Wright
2 days ago

I’m surprised by #14 (Being done with the APA), oddly because of its reasonableness. I’m a philosopher—I’m an NTT at a system (i.e., not flagship) state school—who earned his Ph.D. a bit more than a decade ago. In that time, I’ve been an APA member exactly twice: when I was on the job market to get access to interfolio and a few years ago when I presented at Central and wanted a discount on registration. Outside of that, I’ve never seen the need to be an APA member, which has always struck me as a bit odd. I’d never want to suggest that the APA doesn’t do anything, but I have a very hard time understanding what it does for *me*. I can’t afford to travel to Central every year, to say nothing of Eastern or Pacific, and as Justin notes, it’s an organization that’s, practically speaking, broadly at odds with my values and geared towards faculty types that I’m just not. I’d much rather go to conferences and join organizations both philosophical and otherwise where I feel welcome. In other words, I’m getting along just fine, professionally speaking, without the APA.

All that being said, I’m not really familiar with people putting their reasons for not being APA members (or, in Justin’s case, planning to non-renew) so straightforwardly. As far as I can tell, Justin sees this like me: an organization broadly inconsistent with my values that doesn’t add value to my professional life. Maybe I’ve just missed where other people have said this, but I have a hard time believing that this feeling is shared only by Justin and myself. What say you, other non-APA members? Do we just fail to see the value and move on with our lives? Do we care about the APA? Should we?

Never gone to an APA, probably never will
Never gone to an APA, probably never will
Reply to  Jake Wright
2 days ago

Yes, I had a similar reaction to #14. Like Jake, I’ve only been a member a few times, mostly so I could qualify for opportunities when I was junior (none of which I ended up securing). I’ve never attended an APA, nor do I feel much need or desire to do so at this point in my career. This isn’t meant as a criticism of the APA, but simply as a way of registering my perspective, which may hopefully serve as a useful data point for those at the helm. Institutional work like this is difficult, especially when it involves serving such a large and diverse group of people, so I’m offering these comments from a place of goodwill.

Kino
Kino
Reply to  Jake Wright
1 day ago

I think most people will feel this way about most organizations. However, unless we collectively hold the view that professional organizations are useless, we will have to (collectively, not personally for any individual) make some sort of commitment. The attitude I understand you to be highlighting — the idea of “we don’t have to care about it, especially now that it’s screwed up” — can be had about any organizations, small and now-welcoming ones included. No one needs to care about all of them, but someone needs to care about some of them or else we’ll be in a situation with no functional professional organization. People who are involved in APA service have clearly chosen the APA as the one they care, and through effort they may make it worth caring about for the rest of us too. I don’t think it’s generally speaking a good policy to abandon an organization at the first sight of disagreement and I applaud those who have spent effort trying to make the APA worth caring about.

Miroslav Imbrisevic
2 days ago

Thank you for this, Colin. Lot’s to ponder for the APA.

Eugene Chislenko
2 days ago

Thank you Colin for all your work on the Pacific APA conference and for this sharp, thoughtful, and humane set of reflections. I really appreciated reading these and especially #8 and #9. It’s standard to subsidize accessible options and to give experiments some time to figure out what works. And people who do not want to go to virtual conferences too easily forget the many people who cannot get to in-person ones and could be reached by offering both options. I do appreciate the APA for taking a step toward accessible, sustainable conferencing options, but I hope the Eastern, Central, and Pacific Divisions reconsider their decision to cancel the 2+1 experiment and work out a plan to give it another try.

Kenny Easwaran
2 days ago

Thank you for these reflections! I especially think points 4 and 6 are important. Many of the big problems of virtual conferences arise from trying to make them “the same” as in-person conferences, but online. Figuring out what kinds of formats and topics and sessions actually work online is the important thing, and further innovations in presentations beyond just moving from reading a paper to talking over slides will be valuable. (Some of these further innovations might even transfer back to in-person talks, but some might be just as valuable contributions even if they don’t.)

I do think it would be good for the APA to have something divisional-meeting-sized that is online every year or two, whether it’s one of the divisional meetings or something else. I also think it’s important that these things be financially sustainable somehow. It’s not good if it’s just a bunch of Zoom rooms with four people beyond the speaker and commentator – but if it can be a bunch of 70-person sessions with a few “watch parties” among those 70, that’s amazing.

But as you note, it’s a *lot* of work to put together anything this size. Making it sustainable is difficult.

Kerry McKenzie
Kerry McKenzie
2 days ago

Thank you for the post and for all the work you put in, Colin. I obviously share your disappointment and your concerns about how the APA handled things, and the message it sent. I had concerns too about the task force: I messaged them twice to try to set up a conversation about how the (IMHO very successful!) PSA Office Hour could be adapted for the context of the online APA, in case they wanted to experiment with something like that. Despite having what I thought were some good ideas, and certainly a bunch of enthusiasm, no-one ever replied to me.

Cressida Heyes
Cressida Heyes
2 days ago

For a long time I shared some of the disinterest in the APA expressed by other commentators. But because of the persuasive skills of Ariela Tubert, I’m currently a member of the Pacific Program Committee. I thought the online conference was fantastic for many of the insightful reasons Colin gives, especially the use of non-traditional presentation formats, public sessions and Watch Parties, and the conscious attempt many of us made to invite philosophers who live outside the US and/or who might not be able to afford/want to travel to the Pacific region. There’s lots I could say about sustainability and accessibility, but I’ll just emphasize one thing: for many people, trying to cross the US border now is a huge risk that is not worth taking. It’s always been a difficult one (I used to live in the US and as a UK citizen with an H1B visa I was hassled back in the 90’s) but obviously under Trump the risk of harassment, detention, or being denied entry for *everyone* has increased, and is borne disproportionately by racialized, Muslim, and trans philosophers, as well as those with visible records of political activism irritating to this regime. So if the APA wants to engage with anyone living outside the US (including Canadians and US citizens abroad), online conferences will be important. Perhaps Colin’s #11 is just the reality. I’ll be spelling off the committee next year, and also don’t expect to continue this experiment with engaging the APA, but actually it’s been great in some ways so that’s a bit sad.

Colin
Reply to  Cressida Heyes
1 day ago

Thanks for this, Cressida. I’m curious if any members of the APA Executive Committees can speak to this: when the divisions voted to discontinue 2+1, did they discuss the border-crossing challenges faced by people outside the US? And if so, how did they weigh that consideration?

Daniel Weltman
2 days ago

As someone for whom #7 and #8 (expenses,) #9 (can’t really attend in-person APAs), and #11 (I’m not in the US and travel is a big deal for me) are salient, #10 (small online events are not a substitute for divisional meetings) doesn’t seem very compelling to me. The reasons given are that “people who attend [divisional meetings] are marked as really belonging,” and that “presenters get a line on their CV that almost any hiring committee will value.”

For the first one, I don’t really understand what that means, but anyways we should stop saying this sort of thing, and then it will stop being true. Please accept members of the profession who do not attend the APA, and please don’t pretend that others will not do this! I accept people even if they have not been to APAs and I am sure there are many like me. The more we pretend people like me don’t exist, the more we make it true, and vice versa.

For the second one, I don’t treat acceptance at the APA as a particularly interesting line on a CV. Acceptance to any sort of conference is more or less equivalent in my eyes. Many small-scale conferences are more prestigious than the APA.

Moreover, these two reasons seem to me pretty small potatoes. I guess they are reasons to have at least one of the “big” three meetings online, but if I had to choose between being able to attend an APA online (very hard for me because I would have to stay up multiple nights or skip most of the sessions) versus attending something smaller online (only a few sleepless nights) I would rather the latter, so I would be happier having smaller-scale events hosted. This is doubly true because I find smaller conferences immeasurably better intellectually than the large-scale ones.

Ultimately however I support moving lots of things online, the APA included. A lot of stuff is lost when a conference is moved online but the gains are very important too. Being able to be more inclusive and avoiding the costs (both monetary and environmental) of travel are very big gains. At the very least we need a mix of online and offline stuff.

Colin
Reply to  Daniel Weltman
1 day ago

Thanks, Daniel. I also generally prefer smaller conferences – whether online or in person. At the same time, I think there’s reason why APA presentations carry special weight: it’s a big refereed conference, and getting a submitted paper accepted by an APA signals that you’re likely to get it accepted at a prestigious journal. Smaller conference have less (or no) refereeing process, so if I’m looking at job applications, participation in small events gives me less evidence about likelihood of future publications. So my overall vote would, as you say, that we need a mix: big and small events, virtual and in-person.

Jason Kay
Jason Kay
1 day ago

I feel quite torn about this issue. I don’t deny the magnitude or importance of the environmental benefits of holding conferences online. But my eperience at the vietual Pacific APA was an awful, soul-crushing experience, and the worst of any conference I’ve attended by far. Some of the contributing factors the OP already mentions, including a very large attendance fee. But the main issue was the non-functional technology. The only session I attended began 10 minutes late as we weren’t able to see the presenter’s slides. The small audience of people which our topic had attracted had entirely left by the time I gave my comments–embarrassingly disorganized and addled since it was 8pm–and the discussion between the speaker, myself, and a second commentator was brief and forced. There were no networking benefits, no pleasures of social interaction, and no point, it seemed, except to achieve a CV line. Any purpose furrhered by these demoralizing activities could have been better and less painfully achieved had the speaker reached out to me out of the blue for comments on his dissertation paper. I spent the subsequent days thanking God it was over and dutifully performing my daily ablutions.

Colin
Reply to  Jason Kay
1 day ago

Thanks for this candid reply, Jason. I’m sorry your session didn’t go well – all the sessions I popped into went smoothly with tech, but I don’t doubt there were problems. The same is true with in-person conferences: sometimes participants don’t engage well, or miss their session due to flight delays, or run into an obnoxious participant.

That said, I will push back on you making an overall assessment based on only going to one session out of the whole conference. We had networking opportunities, including as the excellent Gathertown reception, and I saw people connect in many sessions through the chat function and during the Q&A. I suspect you would have had a different experience if you had put more time in. Even so, virtual conferences aren’t for everyone – the key point I want to make is that they’re the best (and sometimes only) option for some people.

Chris
Chris
Reply to  Jason Kay
1 day ago

One of the first APAs I participated in – years before the pandemic and hence in person- I was a commentator on a paper in which the only people in the audience were the speaker commentator and chair of the next session. Very dispiriting for the speaker, who I think probably never went to another APA. So this can happen in person or on line.

Daniel Weltman
Reply to  Chris
1 day ago

Yes, one of the reasons I like smaller conferences a lot more than things like the APA is that at a smaller conference everyone goes to everything, whereas at the APA and other larger conferences, at best you have overlapping sessions that compete with each other for attendance, and at worst people skip most sessions to hang out with friends. At all the APAs I’ve been to (many years ago, all in person) I ended up in some very small sessions.

Michael Cholbi
Michael Cholbi
1 day ago

I now work in the UK but worked for about 20 years in the US, and attended many APA’s during my time in the US (at least 20). I find it odd that one of the selling points of virtual APA’s is that those outside North America find it more convenient. No, there aren’t travel costs but the time zone issues make attendance daunting. The entire Pacific program took place between what was 4 pm and 4 am UK time. Similar problems face those wanting to attend from east Asia. I’m simply not willing to pay a significant registration fee for an event where I might be awake for 1/3 of it.

Colin
Reply to  Michael Cholbi
1 day ago

Thanks for this, Michael – this confirms my suspicion that the registration fee was a significant issue.
I do stand by the claim that for many people outside the US, virtual conferences are better. Some people can’t travel, and others can’t cross the US border safely (see Cressida’s post above). But even for academics who can travel, it’s not obvious what’s more convenient. An Edinburgh to San Fransisco flight is about 14 hours, for example – plus a few more hours for customs and security. That’s 30+ hours, and (for me) that’s less convenient than staying up late at home for 3 nights. Of course, some people enjoy working on planes, so they’d have a different preference. The claim was never was that virtual conferences are better for everyone – it’s that they’re better for a non-trivial number of us, and so should be in the mix.

Knibbe
Knibbe
1 day ago

I think it’s fine for the APA to have an online conference, but it’s dubious to frame it as a justice issue.

Additionally, most of the goods that come from attending an APA meeting aren’t available to those who attend online APAs, e.g. networking opportunities, which I take to be the most significant good of attending, are not available to a significant degree in online meetings. (Yes, you can connect a bit. But not like an in person meeting.)

Additionally, having a line on your CV saying you presented at the APA likely won’t make any difference for your job prospects.

So, the stakes just aren’t that high for this.

Kino
Kino
Reply to  Knibbe
1 day ago

“most of the goods that come from attending an APA meeting aren’t available to those who attend online APAs” — I don’t think that’s true. Yes, it will look different from how it looks in in-person conferences, but I don’t think it is worse. As Kerry McKenzie mentioned in a previous comment, the PSA has had a (imo very successful) initiative of virtual office hours where grad students get into a zoom room with a “big shot” expert to talk philosophy. That is, imo, a better version of the in-person version of awkward smoker introductions. Anecdotally, I find it much easier to talk to strangers in a zoom room even during regular sessions, especially when it’s a small attendance. It’s also a lot easier to follow up with people (because I can just note down the names displayed on their zoom screen as opposed to having to hunt them down afterward).
Even ignoring above, “it’s dubious to frame it as a justice issue” isn’t true either. It is a climate justice issue, and many people (such as myself) who prefer in-person conferences support the occasional online conference for climate reasons.

Knibbe
Knibbe
Reply to  Kino
1 day ago

People vote with their feet. I take it that lower turnout suggests that many others also think online networking isn’t significantly as good as in person. The other primary good of the APA is hanging out with friends, and that too isn’t satisfied by the online format.

Colin
Reply to  Knibbe
1 day ago

Knibbe: I appreciate you weighing in. I also think you’re not quite approaching the question the right way (what I call the “less important comparison” above). We all agree that many people prefer in-person. The central question is whether there should be *any* virtual APAs, for people who can’t attend in-person ones. I’ve developed friendships through virtual APAs and other online events, and I know other people who have too. About 800 people voted with their wallets in favor of the online Pacific APA, even with the high registration fees – that’s a sizable number of philosophers.

Knibbe
Knibbe
Reply to  Colin
1 day ago

I guess that I’m not convinced there *should* be any virtual APAs. (To be clear, I think there’s nothing wrong with having such conferences, but I don’t think they’re obligatory.) I don’t doubt that some people have benefited from these online conferences. But we need to take into account the costs vs the benefits here.

You’re right that a sizable number of people signed up for the virtual APA. My guess–which could be wrong–is that many did this because they had university funding to do this, so it didn’t cost them anything. I would be curious how many (non-presenter) participants paid, out of their own pocket, $200 to attend.

Additionally, I’ll add that it’s pretty weird to argue in favor of online APA conference because non-Americans can attend them. I mean, the APA is for *American* philosophers. (Hence, the APA.) So, it’s a bit weird to make it a selling point that those outside of America can attend.

Colin
Reply to  Knibbe
1 day ago

On the last point: I think it’s valuable for non-US scholars to be able to join (this includes Canada – many Canadian scholars are worried about crossing the border). But many of the people at the APA who expressed fears about travel were within the US. So even if the APA is only meant to be for philosophers inside the US, it’s failing a significant number of them.

Peter Finocchiaro
Peter Finocchiaro
Reply to  Knibbe
1 day ago

“the APA is for *American* philosophers.”

A few points that I think are worth mentioning:

(1) Some Americans (myself included) live outside of America and struggle to attend the in-person events for all of the reasons others have mentioned. Mutatis mutandis for APA members, which presumably the APA has a greater obligation to serve than Americans who may or may not be APA members.

(2) Despite the implication of its name, the APA is not for *American* philosophers. Its mission statement and its About page do not say anything that indicates that it is for American philosophers. In fact, the APA often says things that imply it is for a broader group of philosophers. The launch of JAPA, for instance, is described as “a unique opportunity for philosophers *around the world* to participate in the birth of not simply another philosophy journal, but a preeminent philosophy journal.”

(3) Even if the APA was for *American* philosophers, the APA acts in ways that influence academic philosophy beyond America and thus has an obligation to use that influence responsibly. PhilJobs, for instance, is explicitly not for *American* philosophers. And yet PhilJobs ads are required to comply with APA-created policies. (To be clear, I don’t disagree with these policies.)

I have to admit that Colin’s #11 is increasingly hard to deny. I have a lot of misgivings with how these online APAs are run (the registration fees most especially). But it is obvious to me that these sorts of events need to happen. And it is now obvious to me that, power structures being what they are, they never will.

Knibbe
Knibbe
Reply to  Peter Finocchiaro
1 hour ago

I phrased that wrong: the APA primarily is for philosophers in America. They no doubt hope to have a wider influence, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the conferences take place in the US. (No doubt they want a wider influence. Who doesn’t? But they’re basically a US philosophy organization.) Similarly, there are philosophical organizations in other countries that are primarily for philosophers in those countries. In light of this, while it’s fine for the APA to try to reach philosophers outside of America, it strikes me as an unwise goal, since their resources could be better used elsewhere.

(Obviously, its journal is open to everyone and should be. It would be crazy to limit submissions or topics to only philosophers living in America.)

David Wallace
David Wallace
Reply to  Kino
4 hours ago

I’ve participated in the PSA office hours twice and I thought it was great. But I’m not sure that speaks to the value of holding conferences online, so much as to the value of organizing other online things, not necessarily in conference format, for people who can’t come to (in-person) conferences.

Joshua Alexander
Joshua Alexander
1 day ago

Am I the only person who thinks that the primary reason why online conferences don’t work is that the only good reason to go to a conference is to hang out with old friends and meet new people in a cool city? (I am only slightly kidding here…)

Colin
Reply to  Joshua Alexander
1 day ago

Joshua: The Pacific APA did work for many people, especially people who can’t attend in-person APAs. Nobody is advocating for getting rid of in-person APAs altogether – they’re clearly valuable for many people, such as yourself. But there are many philosophers for whom that’s not an option, and who really appreciate the opportunity to connect online at an official APA conference.

Why such high fees?
Why such high fees?
1 day ago

I was *really* interested in some of the talks at the Pacific APA, but paying 200 dollars to sit in my office felt too silly.

Kino
Kino
Reply to  Why such high fees?
1 day ago

Is that disproportionally more silly than paying 2000 dollars to sit in a hotel room?
Again, as Colin mentions, there is a conversation to be had about people who can attend both in-person and online conferences, whether there are good reasons to do online. But there’s a separate conversation to be had about people who can only attend online conferences, whether the experience is worth having. And I think many people in the latter camp answer “yes”. And that’s valuable. Online conferences are not free. If they are to happen, they need to charge registration fees just like in-person conferences do. I don’t understand why “2000 dollars will give me a better experience” is in any relevant to the discussion of “whether the 200-dollar crappy experience is better or worse than no experience” (even if we grant that the experience is crappy, which it might not be)

Knibbe
Knibbe
Reply to  Kino
1 day ago

I’ve been to quite a few free online conferences. (They’re not fun.) I wouldn’t pay $20 to attend one, let alone $200!

Alice
Alice
Reply to  Kino
1 day ago

Good point. That’s, I think, what people are indoctrinated to believe. 2000 travel/vacation? That’s dirt cheap! /s (After all, a non fancy hotel can cost upwards of 500/night these days.) But 200 on a screen, no way! Screen stuff should be free. 18$/month YouTube subscription is outrageous! /s

Anyways, I do think getting rid of online form is too hasty and is definitely not a good look on APA. I suspect that a few voices are disproportionately influential while others follow suit more or less. Skeptical voices like Kino’s driven by other reasonable considerations are just not influential enough to sway the committee, not even enough to open up a dialogue with broader community.

UK Postdoc
UK Postdoc
18 hours ago

I have no bone in this debate, but on the broader topic of virtual conferences: I am surprised most people focus on the lack of networking or hanging out with friends as the main downside of virtual conferences. That makes it sound as if the other aspect of conferences – attending talks – is unaffected by going virtual. For me, the main issue is that I find it much more difficult to really concentrate on a virtual talk and as a result I get much less out of it. When you’re physically there, in the room, and you hear the speaker’s actual voice rather than a live stream of it, it is just so much easier to focus and pay attention.

I find it much easier, and much more enjoyable, to have, say, a reading group over Zoom. I wonder whether, going forward with virtual conferences, and echoing #3 and #6, it might not make sense to have more such discussion groups. This could either be a read-ahead format, or something that requires less preparation. But if I saw a virtual conference that consisted of a choice of read-ahead discussions, with papers that actually interested me, and participants whom I thought I could learn something from, I might very well be willing to fork out some money for that!

Shay Allen Logan
Reply to  UK Postdoc
5 hours ago

I suspect your experience is far from universal. I have a much easier time listening to online talks (I still don’t much like online conferences, but for other reasons). I find the distraction of other people moving and rustling and muttering and coming in and out talking weirdly loudly in the hallway just so so hard to tune out. In an online talk it’s me, the slides, and the speaker.

I also find it much easier to ask good questions at an online for pretty much the same reasons. Also I can mute myself and try the question out and see if it’s stupid *before* I ask it and wow is that a nice thing to be able to do.

Come to think of it I should probably be doing that more.

Jamie Dreier
Jamie Dreier
13 hours ago

I think Peter Finocchiaro is absolutely right that the APA tries to serve the interests of philosophers worldwide, and not just American philosophers; but also that its committees are in general trying to represent the membership, which is predominantly in the US (but still about 15% non-US). But I wonder what Peter means about the power structures. Also, I wonder whether it would make sense for the APA to tinker with its voting so that international members could elect someone to represent them – some kind of proportional representation, maybe? Is that what you meant about power structures, Peter?

Becko
Becko
Reply to  Jamie Dreier
12 hours ago

The APA has a Committee on International Cooperation, whose charge is “is to supervise the international activities of the association. Among its tasks are planning for international conferences, publicizing philosophical activity abroad, facilitating the exchange of information and research between American philosophers and those in other countries, providing support and assistance to philosophers subjected to unfair treatment in other countries, and assisting philosophical organizations abroad.” https://www.apaonline.org/group/international

Peter Finocchiaro
Peter Finocchiaro
Reply to  Jamie Dreier
1 hour ago

Hi Jamie — I was partially expressing an inarticulate feeling of frustration, so even I’m not 100% sure what I meant. Still, if I were to try to articulate the feeling, it would be something like the following. Yes, it would be nice for international members to have more formal representation. But I think that representation would turn out to be mostly symbolic. In my experience, it is difficult to make lasting changes in philosophy that go against the interests of (comparatively) privileged US professors (as Colins puts it). That remains true even when the decision-makers are not from that interest group and even when the decision-makers are trying their best to be fair and reasonable. To be clear, I think I am guilty of this as well. But it has been frustrating to see this dynamic play out in philosophy, especially when it takes the form of this bait-and-switch that Knibbe’s comment exposes: the APA is for everyone when it is a convenient way for it to expand its influence, but the APA is suddenly for *American* philosophers when the obligations that influence creates start to become inconvenient.

Guy Fleegman
Guy Fleegman
4 hours ago

Thank you for your work for the meeting, Colin. I was a participant in it, and I found it enjoyable. I learned a lot from the session I participated in and the sessions I attended. I paid out of my own pocket for the registration, since my institution has clamped down on travel funds in the current authoritarian climate. I did find it pricey, and the costs did cause me to register as a non-APA member because it wound up being the cheaper option. That being said, I was able to afford the amount I paid.

Of your points, I do not agree with #6. A paper can be read and be accessible to non-specialists; it depends on how it is written and delivered. At the same time, a slide presentation can often be rambling and incoherent; it depends on how it is organized and delivered. If there are norms that need to be established, I think they need to center around cultivating a basic awareness that one is addressing other human beings, but I’ve observed that that is a norm that needs cultivation in many other disciplines as well, not just philosophy.

Last edited 4 hours ago by Guy Fleegman
Guy Fleegman
Guy Fleegman
Reply to  Guy Fleegman
4 hours ago

Just to add: I appreciated the virtual format of the meeting because I did not have to fly. I think we should minimize flying for environmental reasons. Plus, I also agree with the sentiment that it is an accessibility/safety issue for those who are non-U.S. citizens or who are not permanent residents. (I’m a U.S. citizen, and I don’t feel totally confident flying for those reasons, too.)