News for & about the philosophy profession

The Philosophy Job Market Deepfake (guest post)

Have you heard? AI companies are hiring philosophers!

Sort of.

News about jobs for philosophers is the kind of thing you might expect to read about at Daily Nous—for example, here is a post about which philosophers are working for which AI-related firms and organizations—yet articles about the topic have been cropping up lately in a surprising number of mainstream media outlets.

The picture such articles have tended to paint is that the development of artificial intelligence has brought with it a new career path for people trained in philosophy. But how accurate is that picture?

In reality, things are more complicated and less clear, as Aaron Kagan explains in the following guest post. Kagan is the founder of GraspingAI, an AI research and strategy organization. He holds a PhD in philosophy and has worked at Google Search, X / Loon, Meta Reality Labs, and other technology firms. He is also co-author of An Introduction to Embodied Mind: Thinking Outside the Head and serves as Chair of the American Philosophical Association’s Committee on Non-Academic Careers.


UPDATE: Dr. Kagan says that he used AI as an editorial aid during the drafting and revising of this post, but that “the argument, research, job-posting analysis, and conclusions are my own.”


The Philosophy Job Market Deepfake
by Aaron Kagan

AI has produced a strange new fantasy about the humanities: maybe philosophy was the practical major all along.

In the past few weeks, the story has been hard to miss. Wired told readers that to land a job in AI, they might try reading Kant. The Atlantic announced that someone finally wants to hire philosophers. Business Insider argued that AI is opening doors for philosophy majors. The Economist asked why big AI labs are hiring so many philosophers. International Business Times said AI companies were “recruiting philosophers.” And now The New York Times has given the story its biggest platform yet, under the headline “The Revenge of the Philosophy Majors.”

The message is irresistible, especially at a moment when students, parents, universities, and laid-off workers are all trying to make sense of a brutal job market. AI may be destroying some jobs, but perhaps it is creating a new home for people trained to think about values, meaning, minds, and morality.

I understand the appeal. I have a PhD in philosophy. I spent years inside major technology companies, including Google, X, and Meta. I have also spent years helping philosophers and humanists translate their training into non-academic work. I would love the optimistic story to be true.

But it is only half true. And that makes it dangerous.

The better way to say it is this: philosophy is becoming more visible in AI, but not yet legible as a career path. A few philosophers have highly visible roles. Many more people are doing philosophy-adjacent work under other titles. But that is not the same as a robust labor market for philosophers, and it is not the same as a reliable pathway for students or displaced academics trying to understand where their training fits. The pipeline is real at the level of problems. It is weak at the level of occupational labels.

AI companies really do need work that overlaps with philosophical training. Their leaders increasingly talk about values, judgment, alignment, public input, human goals, what systems should refuse, and what it means for AI to act well in the world. These are not minor side issues. They are conceptual problems that engineering alone cannot settle.

But when you look at the job market, the picture changes.

In a June 25 snapshot that philosopher Charles Lassiter and I conducted, we examined 1,815 currently open roles across 11 AI labs. None required a philosophy credential. A naive keyword count made the market look much larger: 26.6 percent of postings mentioned AI ethics, safety, alignment, governance, or policy. But after removing generic mission language and other boilerplate, roughly 5 percent of roles substantively involved that work. That is a real slice of the market, but a small one, and it is not the same thing as a pipeline for philosophers as philosophers.

The roles are rarely called “philosopher.” They are called research engineer, policy analyst, data scientist, trust and safety specialist, governance lead, UX researcher, product manager, AI safety researcher, legal expert, or societal impacts scientist. The questions may be philosophical, but the job labels usually are not.

The mistake is the old “major equals job” fantasy in a new AI costume. Philosophy does not usually become a job called “philosopher,” just as history does not usually become a job called “historian.” It becomes a form of training that has to be translated into institutional work.

That is the job market deepfake: a public story that turns scattered, specialized roles into the appearance of a clear new pathway.

This matters because the tech job market is already confusing enough. Entry-level workers are being told they need senior-level judgment. Mid-career workers are being told to “learn AI.” Students are being told that degrees, prestige credentials, and traditional entry-level pathways no longer mean what they used to. Then comes a beautiful story: the people who studied Kant, Aristotle, ethics, consciousness, and political theory are finally wanted in Silicon Valley.

Some are. A small number of philosophers really are working inside frontier AI labs. Amanda Askell at Anthropic is the most visible example, and her work shaping Claude’s behavior is genuinely important. Henry Shevlin recently joined Google DeepMind with the actual title “Philosopher,” working on machine consciousness, human-AI relationships, and AGI readiness. These examples matter.

But a handful of high-profile philosophers is not the same thing as a robust, legible labor market.

The difference matters for the student whose family forwards them one of these articles and says, “See? There are jobs for you after all.” It matters for the humanities department trying to defend its relevance. It matters for the laid-off researcher, policy worker, or academic who is told that AI companies are hungry for exactly the kind of conceptual training they have spent years developing.

The truth is more awkward. AI organizations need conceptual labor, but the public labor market does not yet show a clear pathway for philosophers as philosophers.

By conceptual labor, I mean the work of clarifying what a system is for, what assumptions are hidden inside a metric, what values are being traded off, what counts as harm, what kind of evidence is relevant, whose perspective is missing, and what a product should refuse to do. This is not merely “ethics” in the narrow compliance sense. It is the work of making confused problems thinkable. It is one thing a philosophical education can train you to do.

Any serious AI organization needs this work. But it rarely appears as a standalone occupational category. Instead, it is often routed through categories organizations already understand: engineering, policy, law, data science, product, and trust and safety.

That translation is not always bad. A trust and safety analyst deciding when a system should refuse a request may be doing applied ethics under another name. A product researcher studying how people understand an AI assistant may be doing philosophy of mind in practical form. A policy worker defining “misuse” may be doing conceptual analysis with operational consequences.

The problem is not that philosophy is absent from AI. The problem is that it often becomes invisible inside the organization.

I have seen this firsthand. Years ago at Google, I helped surface and organize an informal “Philosophers at Google” group. It began with a small call: who else here has a philosophy PhD or serious philosophical training? A few of us met. Then more people surfaced: product people, policy people, UX researchers, engineers, strategists, and people working in AI ethics and safety-adjacent roles.

Eventually, the group grew to around thirty people. The funny thing was that none of us had been hired as “the philosopher.” We had translated ourselves into different roles the company understood. But once we found each other, it became obvious that the same kinds of training kept reappearing: clarifying concepts, surfacing assumptions, building taxonomies, asking what problem was actually being solved, and helping teams reason about human consequences.

The talent was already there. The institution just did not have a clear way to see it or name it.

That is why the current “AI wants philosophers” story needs a correction. The issue is not whether philosophers can contribute to AI. They already do. The issue is whether the public story has mistaken philosophical demand for a legible occupational pipeline.

A better headline would be: AI companies say they need philosophers. Their job boards tell a messier story.

That may sound less romantic than “read Kant, get hired.” But it is more useful. It tells students and workers the truth: philosophical training can matter in AI, but it probably will not be enough on its own. You will likely need to translate it into product judgment, research practice, policy design, safety work, governance, law, or technical collaboration. The work is real. The pathway is indirect, uneven, and often hard to see.

And it tells AI companies something they need to hear: if values, judgment, public input, and human goals are truly central to the future of AI, then they cannot remain vague public language. They need names, roles, decision rights, and career paths. They need people who are explicitly asked, authorized, and rewarded to ask the questions that engineering alone cannot answer.

The danger is not that AI companies are lying when they say they need philosophy. The danger is that the public hears “jobs,” while the labor market says something murkier: maybe, but only if the work can pass as something else.

That is not a pipeline. It is a mirage with a good headline.

Fordham University Applied Ethics Master's Program

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

86 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Thoughtful Giraffe
Thoughtful Giraffe
2 months ago

It’s a bit unnerving to me that this post sounds a lot like AI-generated writing. The “It’s not X. It’s Y.” formulation is a recurring example:

“These are not minor side issues. They are conceptual problems that engineering alone cannot settle.”

“Philosophy does not usually become a job called “philosopher,” just as history does not usually become a job called “historian.” It becomes a form of training that has to be translated into institutional work.”

“This is not merely “ethics” in the narrow compliance sense. It is the work of making confused problems thinkable.”

“The problem is not that philosophy is absent from AI. The problem is that it often becomes invisible inside the organization.”

“The issue is not whether philosophers can contribute to AI. They already do. The issue is whether the public story has mistaken philosophical demand for a legible occupational pipeline.”

“That is not a pipeline. It is a mirage with a good headline.”

Eli Alshanetsky
2 months ago

What I find unnerving is that this kind of indirect discrediting of the author, irrespective of the merits of the writing, is becoming commonplace. “Not X, but Y” is a traditional rhetorical device: it sets up a common/superficial assumption and immediately displaces it with a sharper/deeper reality. I worry that once AI systems make certain effective formulae salient, those formulae start to look suspicious simply because AI uses them too. Among other harms, this hands AI companies the power to redraw the norms of good writing arbitrarily, regardless of whether the writing is any good.

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago

Thank you. I really appreciate this, especially the reminder that the merits of the argument should not disappear behind speculative authorship detection.

The broader point you make has been bothering me too. We seem to be drifting toward a strange form of self-censorship where writers start avoiding perfectly ordinary rhetorical devices, punctuation, or sentence structures because they might “look AI.” At some point that stops being healthy skepticism and starts letting probabilistic guesses about machine style redraw the boundaries of acceptable human writing.

Surely we are not all now overdetermined by whether we use an em dash—or are we?

Runa
Runa
2 months ago

I stopped using it — and I love it. I feel bereft.

MBW
MBW
2 months ago

“it’s not a pipeline; it’s a mirage…” is a lazy contrastive construction (and it doesn’t make a lot of sense if you think about it.)

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago

Unfortunately, in this case it’s more than just a few phrasings – as someone who talks to AIs a decent amount, and reads lots of student assignments on AI literacy, I have a sense of what AI sounds like that goes beyond just the “it’s not X but Y” thing, and the entire text has the rhythm of AI writing. Unfortunately, that has the tendency of making me shy away from reading it – I’m somehow totally fine reading that voice when I’m directly talking to an AI, but don’t like hearing it come from other people. And I say that even as someone who thinks more people should use more AI in much of their work! I just have developed a bit of a revulsion at the sound of AI text when it’s not coming as part of a direct conversation with AI.

Alice
Alice
2 months ago
Reply to  Kenny Easwaran

I wholeheartedly agree with every sentiment Kenny said here. Personally, I would add that, *as a pure reader* (as opposed to a supervisor role for example), I don’t care if an author used AI during writing/thinking and doesn’t disclose it. But, I do mind if the article *sounds* AI. It’s the same revulsion Kenny talked about. I think it is a new context-sensitive form of bad writing. And it has a disproportionately negative effect on reading experience comparing to its seemingly minor bad-ness.

Jessie Ewesmont
Jessie Ewesmont
2 months ago
Reply to  Kenny Easwaran

My theory is that it’s because we’re so used to seeing it come from cheating students, so we associate it with unpleasant feelings. As loose anecdotal evidence, this instinctive revulsion seems rather common among academics but rare outsidd of it.

ERW
ERW
2 months ago

That’s not my experience. I actually find more laypeople fed up with the tech company forced adoption of AI technologies than philosophers, many of whom have developed complicated rationales for why it’s *good actually.*

This is anecdotal, but I’ve also found that people who don’t generally read (i.e., the extent of their everyday reading is text messages and basic webpages) have a higher tolerance for AI slop writing. Since they don’t know good or bad writing they don’t notice or care about the difference.

Justin Weinberg
Justin Weinberg
2 months ago

I’ve added an update to the post about this: “Dr. Kagan says that he used AI as an editorial aid during the drafting and revising of this post, but that ‘the argument, research, job-posting analysis, and conclusions are my own.’”

Patrick Lin
2 months ago

Hi Justin, was this disclosure post hoc, or was it included when you received the essay?

To Eli’s concern: I’d agree that if it was already in your writing style, pre-LLMs, to use such rhetorical devices—or other AI hallmarks, like em-dashes—then you shouldn’t feel you need to stop, just because AI also does those things. But the presumption is still that everything one writes is authentically you; if AI was used at all, them that fact should be disclosed, at least for professional work. If there’s a single norm in how to responsibly use AI, that’s the basic, most fundamental one right now.

And it turned out the author indeed used AI, so the signal was accurate (this time). If he failed to disclose that initially, then there’d now be a trust issue. Can we really trust that “the argument, research, job-posting analysis, and conclusions are my own”, as he claims, if he disregarded the most basic norm in responsible use of AI? That matters to at least some or even many or most people.

So, if anyone cares about not being accused of using AI, you can simply disclose that no AI was used in your writing. But even if you use AI for minor things, like proofreading, that can change how your reader approaches your writing (and you, by extension) for better or worse. It’s a known risk the author would be assuming. If you want to avoid the risk, just do your own work.

(No AI was used in writing this post I’ve ever made or will make here.)

JDF
JDF
2 months ago

I received an email recently from a major magazine, not yet to have written the article from what I can tell, about whether I had noticed moral philosophers being “hoovered up” by AI Companies and if I would do a call to explain why and what I thought about it. I didn’t respond since I haven’t and wouldn’t have any particular insight even if I had, but maybe I should have, if only to try to help make true, for the sake of employment opportunities for recent PhDs, what the media thinks is already happening by lauding it.

Jade Schiff
Jade Schiff
2 months ago

I genuinely can’t tell anymore if this is all some weird performance art or what. It’s actually very unsettling.

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago

I’ll admit I’m surprised that the discussion so far has centered almost entirely on whether AI assisted with the prose.

That seems tangential to the much more pressing issue here: young philosophers, students, and displaced academics are being shown headlines that suggest far more demand, and a far clearer career path, than the public job market appears to support.

So we looked at the evidence: 1,815 currently open roles across 11 AI labs. None required a philosophy credential. A naive keyword count suggested 26.6% involved ethics, safety, alignment, governance, or policy; after removing boilerplate, the estimate was roughly 5%.
The claim is not that no philosophers work in AI, or that AI companies are not doing philosophical work. It is narrower: the pipeline is real at the level of problems, but weak at the level of occupational labels.

I used AI as an editorial aid, as the disclosure now says. That is a legitimate topic for discussion. But surely philosophers can also ask whether the public claim is actually true?

grymes
grymes
2 months ago

Okay: on the substance. Who has actually claimed that there is a clear career path here, or that lots of AI jobs are being labeled or advertised as being for credentialed philosophers? (I don’t think the headlines you’ve referenced, silly as some of them are, particularly suggest either of those things.)

Charles Lassiter
2 months ago
Reply to  grymes

Chalmers in the NYT piece said there’s probably more demand than supply for philosophers with some AI training. I can’t remember others off the top of my head but that one sticks out.

in full disclosure (in case it matters), I helped with the analyses for this post

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago

I think Chalmers is right that the demand for people with both a philosophy PhD and real AI training outstrips the supply (i.e., a significant number of the listed “AI ethics” jobs at philosophy departments will likely go to people who have scraped together a paper showing how one of their real projects has implications for AI).

And I think there’s also a real uptick in AI labs who are looking for people with real philosophical expertise!

But that doesn’t mean this is a large enough number to significantly change the job market for people with philosophy degrees. It’s probably a few dozen people a year, compared to the hundreds of PhDs and thousands of undergraduate majors.

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago
Reply to  grymes

I think the Chalmers quote in the NYT piece is a fairly direct example of the claim I’m pushing back on:

“I think the demand for philosophers with A.I. training is, if anything, outstripping the supply right now.”

That is not merely a claim that philosophers have useful skills, or that some philosophers may find work in AI. It is a claim about the labor market: that demand for philosophers with AI training exceeds supply.

My concern is precisely what a student, recent PhD, department chair, parent, or career adviser is likely to infer from that statement when it appears in a major newspaper alongside a broader narrative about AI companies turning to philosophers. I think the natural inference is that there is substantial unmet employer demand and a meaningful opportunity structure here.

The evidence we looked at does not support that picture.

And yes, I understand that some readers dislike the style of the piece. Fair enough. But I’d prefer to keep that separate from the substantive question of whether these public claims are giving people a misleading impression of the actual job market.

grymes
grymes
2 months ago

It’d be interesting to hear what Dave meant by that. I bet he means Philosophy PhDs–or in any case something narrower than “anyone with a BA”–when he says “philosophers”. And as Charles has documented for us, there are lots of faculty positions for philosophers working in AI right now, such that the demand for credentialed Philosophers of AI pretty clearly outstrips supply right now (even before taking industry jobs into account).

Regardless, I don’t think Chalmers’s quote implies anything about the career path being clear, and I don’t think it’s at all straightforward to operationalize “demand” in terms of credentials or keywords listed in job ads. AI industry employers might well prioritize hiring people with philosophical training for a range of positions, without making philosophical training a required credential (or making “doing philosophy” an explicit job duty). Indeed, if the number of job openings for which employers would prioritize philosophers really does outstrip the supply of qualified philosophers, then some of those employers will have to hire non-philosophers (so they can’t make a philosophy credential an explicit requirement).

I didn’t say anything about the style of your piece.

David Chalmers
2 months ago
Reply to  grymes

the context of the NYT article perhaps makes it sound like i’m talking about demand (for philosophers with AI training) specifically from AI companies, but in fact i was talking about overall demand, which of course includes demand from academic employers (as by far the largest component). a glance at philjobs makes it clear that demand for philosophers with AI expertise is unusually high at the moment.

grymes
grymes
2 months ago
Reply to  David Chalmers

thanks for confirming!

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago
Reply to  David Chalmers

Thanks, David. That’s a very helpful clarification, and I appreciate you jumping in.

In that case, I think the NYT context led me to read your remark too narrowly as a claim about demand from AI companies specifically.

What’s especially interesting is that the two markets may be moving in opposite directions: on the academic side, Charles Lassiter’s PhilJobs analysis shows strong and growing demand for philosophers working on AI. In industry, my analysis finds a much weaker and less legible pipeline, despite the increasingly loud public claims that AI companies “need philosophers.”

That distinction genuinely helps sharpen the argument. Thank you.

grymes
grymes
2 months ago

So let me ask again. Who has actually claimed that there is a “legible pipeline”?

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago
Reply to  grymes

So let me repeat the basic setup of the essay, this time just with the recent headlines:

  • “Someone Finally Wants to Hire Philosophers” — The Atlantic
  • “To Land a Job in AI, Try Reading Kant” — WIRED
  • “AI Is Opening Doors for Philosophy Majors” — Business Insider
  • “Why Big AI Labs Are Hiring So Many Philosophers” — The Economist
  • “AI Companies Spent Years Hiring Engineers; Now They’re Recruiting Philosophers” — International Business Times
  • And the NYT subheading: “A.I. labs are hiring contrarian, chin-stroking, finger-steepling sages. Who’s underemployed now?”

I think it’s entirely reasonable to ask what impression a reader is supposed to take from that coverage. My claim is not that anyone used the exact phrase “legible pipeline.” It’s that this public narrative strongly suggests a meaningful labor-market pathway for philosophers into AI.

My analysis asks whether the public job market actually bears that impression out.

grymes
grymes
2 months ago

Right, but as I noted above, your analysis doesn’t show that there isn’t a meaningful labor-market pathway for philosophers into AI. It just shows that AI job ads don’t specifically ask for philosophers.

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago
Reply to  grymes

I don’t think that’s an accurate characterization of the analysis. I did not simply count ads that explicitly ask for “philosophers.” The study separately tested philosophy credentials, philosophical content/competency, and substantively role-relevant ethics, safety, alignment, governance, and policy work. It also corrected for boilerplate rather than treating keyword mentions as hiring signals.

You’re right that a snapshot of job ads cannot prove that no meaningful pathway exists anywhere, and I explicitly say that. But that is different from saying the analysis only shows that ads don’t use the word “philosopher.” The finding is that, in the public hiring market examined, even broader philosophy-adjacent demand is relatively limited and mostly routed through other occupational categories. That distinction is basically the point of the piece.

grymes
grymes
2 months ago

“But that is different from saying the analysis only shows that ads don’t use the word “philosopher.”

I did not say this; I intended “ask for philosophers” to cover asking for “philosophy credentials, philosophical content/competency, [or] substantively role-relevant ethics, safety, alignment, governance, and policy work.” I thought this would be clear in the context of my previous comment.

To reiterate: I don’t think you found that demand for employees with philosophical training is limited. You just found that the hypothesized demand isn’t made manifest in job ads, which isn’t the same thing. (I’m not saying there is in fact a ton of demand. I have no idea!)

You asked for substantive engagement, and that’s what I’ve got. Have a good night.

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago
Reply to  grymes

I think it’s clear that a bit of the breathless discussion in the magazines and newspapers, and the repeating of the headlines in the blogs, might mislead some people. But I also think that the discussion is unlikely to confuse too many people for more than a few months, unless the headlines continue (the way the headlines about the water issue have continued, while ignoring electricity).

Patrick Lin
2 months ago

I appreciate your efforts here, Aaron, but to many folks, the more pressing issue isn’t so much about presenting an accurate view of the philosophy job market, but it’s on the rampant, irresponsible use of AI. I’d think the latter is the (much) bigger problem for the world.

I’m not necessarily saying that your AI-assisted post was bad or wrong, just that it’s “tainted” with AI in the view of some or many readers. Here’s why that matters:

For many of us, we already have way too much to read and can’t possibly engage with everything worthwhile. So, one reasonable way to triage our workload is to avoid reading or engaging with anything that used AI.

One reason for doing this is to avoid the Gish gallop, where AI-assisted interlocutors can “flood the zone.” With AI, they can engage in argumentum verbosum to overwhelm the conversation with rapid-fire, low-effort, instant arguments that no human can respond to fast enough. If you’ve never been on the receiving end of that, you might not know.

There can be other reasons, such as feeling disrespected by those who write with AI. That becomes clearer in more personal communications, such as emails or eulogies.

But more generally, separating the message from the messenger has been a problem for literally thousands of years, so I don’t think anyone should be surprised much. And it’s not always wrong; sometimes, who the messenger is matters in a non-ad hominem way…

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago
Reply to  Patrick Lin

Patrick, I think there’s an important factual distinction here. I didn’t knowingly disregard a disclosure requirement. I genuinely did not know Daily Nous expected AI-assisted editing to be disclosed up front, and no such expectation had been communicated to me. When Justin asked after publication, I answered directly and immediately, and the disclosure was added.

I’m very comfortable with people having different norms around AI-assisted editing. But I don’t think it follows that an uncommunicated disclosure expectation gives readers reason to distrust the underlying research.

The empirical claims here are also unusually open to scrutiny: the analysis concerns 1,815 public job postings across 11 AI labs, and the central argument is about the gap between public narratives and observable occupational demand. Those claims should absolutely be challenged if the evidence doesn’t support them.

But I’d hope we can distinguish that question from whether I knew, before publication, that this particular venue expected disclosure of editorial AI assistance.

Patrick Lin
2 months ago

Hi Aaron, I have no idea if Daily Nous requires AI disclosure. I was talking about a general norm in at least professional writing to disclose AI use.

If you’ve been working anywhere near AI ethics or following the AI policies of academic journals, as an example,, I assume you’re aware of the norm, no?

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago
Reply to  Patrick Lin

What fraction of academic journals have a policy asking for disclosure of AI use? I’ve seen such disclosures (almost always of the form “no AI was used in the production of this paper” or similar) on a small percentage of papers I’ve been reviewing (or reading) but it doesn’t seem to be that large.

Even as someone who does engage a lot with AI text, I don’t like seeing obvious AI writing in places outside of conversations with AI, but I think the norms around this are genuinely unsettled right now.

Patrick Lin
2 months ago
Reply to  Kenny Easwaran

Hi Kenny, this source says:

83% of high-impact journals now have AI policies.

Journal AI policies 2026 are not standardized. If you used ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, Copilot, or any other generative AI tool during manuscript preparation, assume you may need to disclose it.

Given this, I’d be comfortable defending the claim that there’s a norm around disclosure. That doesn’t necessarily mean every journal has an AI policy—maybe they don’t care if their articles are AI-written, or perhaps they haven’t yet caught up with the times…

not unbiased
not unbiased
2 months ago

I don’t really want to pile on too much here, but I think the thinking from folks who are concerned about the AI usage is this: There is an extraordinary number of markers for AI writing in a 1,400-word document. Part of the reason these are markers for AI writing is that they are not good to read. They are, rather, distracting, and people notice them. The fact that these were not caught and changed before publication suggests (if you hold to the view that these are not good to read) some carelessness on behalf of the author. It is not clearly unreasonable to wonder whether that carelessness extends to the author’s other assertions—perhaps about the pervasiveness of the “deepfake” being investigated, the search method of the snapshot, etc.

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago
Reply to  not unbiased

I don’t take it as a sign of carelessness – I take it as a sign that the author doesn’t mind the sound of AI writing and just doesn’t realize that audiences will react badly to them.

(The fact that some literary prizes seem to be going to obvious AI writing suggests to me that there’s actually a large number of people out there who don’t recognize the sound of AI writing!)

Peter
Peter
2 months ago
Reply to  not unbiased

I’d also add to this that I imagine several of us might just be wondering *why* was AI used for the writing of this piece? It’s short, the author is an experienced writer. It might strike readers at odd that AI was used to write about AI & philosophy, for an audience of philosophers (who, as others have pointed out, are by and large totally fed up of reading AI in student essay). It seems unnecessary at best, a little tone deaf at worst.

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago
Reply to  Patrick Lin

Irrespective of my disclosure faux pas, if we want to call it that, I’m struck by how little of this discussion is engaging the actual issue the piece is about.

There is a real and consequential narrative circulating in major media outlets that philosophy is suddenly in high demand in AI. The Chalmers quote is a particularly clear example: “the demand for philosophers with A.I. training is, if anything, outstripping the supply right now.”

That matters. Students, recent PhDs, departments, families, and people trying to navigate an already brutal academic job market are reading these stories and drawing conclusions about where the opportunities are.

The numbers I examined do not support that narrative. My own decade of experience as a philosopher working in tech does not support it. And many of the philosophers I’ve heard from who are actually working in industry describe a much more difficult, contingent, and illegible path.

So yes, people are welcome to criticize my use of AI-assisted editing, my disclosure of it, or the style of the piece. But I genuinely think we are getting wrapped around the axle of something peripheral while largely avoiding a much more important question:

are we giving emerging and current philosophers a false picture of the labor market?

^That is the issue I hoped the piece would force us to confront.

Patrick Lin
2 months ago

Ok, if you want to focus on your piece, Aaron:

I don’t think we’re giving a false picture of the labor market for philosophers, partly because it’s so hard to tell what an accurate picture looks like. Many of us who’ve also worked with AI orgs have anecdotal data that there’s demand for philosophers, and studying numbers can also give you another kind of data point. Neither is reliable for an accurate picture at this still-early stage of AI.

Also, I’m less concerned about jobs “for philosophers as philosophers”, as you had put it. I’m more concerned about whether their training gives them any special qualifications for jobs that are in demand. And even your initial article suggests there are such roles:

The roles are rarely called “philosopher.” They are called research engineer, policy analyst, data scientist, trust and safety specialist, governance lead, UX researcher, product manager, AI safety researcher, legal expert, or societal impacts scientist. The questions may be philosophical, but the job labels usually are not.

Sure, presenting an accurate picture of the job market is a real issue, at least for philosophers and prospective majors. I don’t know if much can be done presently to definitively answer the question (and so I’m not really weighing in on that, except for here), but I think it’s safe to say that no one is knowingly trying to distort the demand for philosophers. We’re just doing the best we can with the data we have, and anecdotal data is still data. Some of us are more optimistic about the labor market, others are less optimistic—I can’t say either one is “wrong” per se.

With that, I’ll leave it to you all to sort out your question. Thanks for raising the issue!

MBW
MBW
2 months ago

On the substance: does the evidence suggest that there’s not demand for philosophers but for “ethics-washing” of AI, as arguably happened with the techbro variant of effective altruism?

On the style: come on, man. Contrastive constructions are fine but that last line is a doozy, and the breathless style was bad enough on recipe blogs. Train the AI not to sound like slop if you’re going to throw 1400 words my way.

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago
Reply to  MBW

As far as I can tell, on the substance, there really is a new trend of AI labs being interested in hiring people with philosophy training. But something can be a real new trend while still being small compared to the overall job market. Like half of the trends reported in the NYTimes Style section, which might be real trends happening on the streets of SoHo, but still small compared to the broader world of fashion.

(And I agree on disliking the style – use AI to do the research, but you should recognize how bad AI writing sounds when you put it in a non-AI context!)

Eric Steinhart
2 months ago

Philosophy departments are closing. The entire profession in the US is potentially threatened by legislation. The NYT piece (despite its cliches and flaws) was a bit of good news. And Kagan is trying to help our profession do something that will assist in its relevance and persistence. He deserves our gratitude, and his points deserve our serious consideration.

I worked in industry as a computer scientist back in the 90s, and philosophy was very highly respected among computer scientists. I think it still is today. Kagan is presenting sound ideas that we all should be discussing in department meetings, and talking about with our Deans and Provosts. Use his points to think about strategies for survival and growth.

Alexander Guerrero
2 months ago
Reply to  Eric Steinhart

Yes. I have been teaching Ethics of AI for a number of years now. The demand is off the charts, but the class is still probably 75% people either majoring in CS or other STEM areas. They are all very worried about the entry level market for tech/coding jobs, and I would describe many of them as both interested in the philosophical issues they are encountering, and interested in ‘diversifying’ their credentials so that they clearly can add something in addition to the technical side skills.

It strikes me as a real opportunity for pitching a philosophy minor, an ethics minor, a joint Ethics/CS track within CS, etc. Those discussions have been taking place in my neck of the woods, but the CS ethics stuff is often staffed not by philosophy people, but by an assortment of others, many of whom focus still on a kind of ethics by case studies model familiar from the business ethics world. This kind of good press about big tech and AI wanting philosophers and philosophy trained people, at least on some level, seems to offer a helpful argument to motivate involving philosophy profs and philosophers even more centrally.

Aaron, I wanted to say thanks for the work that you do for the APA, and for bringing your expertise and background to help those of us on the academic side of things better understand the situation.

I confess to being irritated by the AI writing/editing with this post, and the initial non-disclosure on that front, but upon reflection a bit more it strikes me as a chance for those of us academics who are very concerned with this kind of thing to realize that our norms are not the norms everywhere, and it is more like a culture clash misunderstanding that we should see for what it is: more like the new business speak of the day (let’s circle back to that to touch base when we have more bandwidth and can do a deep dive to unlock synergies) that we will resist in our corner of the world, for our reasons (creativity, beauty, meaning), even as others just go on ahead with it, for their reasons (efficiency, efficiency, I’m sure there are others).

Aaron (the author)
2 months ago

Alexander, thank you. This is an unusually thoughtful response, and I really appreciate both parts of it.

Your description of the student demand is especially interesting to me because it sharpens a distinction I’m only beginning to see clearly through these conversations. There may be very strong demand for philosophical training around AI, including from technically trained students who recognize that technical competence alone is not enough, while the industry labor market still offers a much less legible pathway for philosophers as philosophers. Those are not contradictory facts, but the public conversation often collapses them into one.

And I think your point about who actually ends up staffing CS ethics is crucial. “AI needs philosophy” can be true at the level of problems, curricula, and intellectual demand without automatically creating institutional authority, faculty lines, or industry roles for philosophers. In some ways, that gap is exactly what I’m trying to get at.

I also really appreciate your candor about the AI editing. I think “culture clash misunderstanding” is a fair and useful way to put it. I should have anticipated that the norms around disclosure would be different in this context, and I understand why the initial absence of disclosure was irritating. I’m grateful that you were willing to revisit your reaction rather than simply write the piece off.

And thank you for the kind words about the APA work. That means a great deal to me, especially coming from someone thinking so seriously about what these changes actually mean for students.

confused
confused
2 months ago

I confess to being irritated by the AI writing/editing with this post, and the initial non-disclosure on that front, but upon reflection a bit more it strikes me as a chance for those of us academics who are very concerned with this kind of thing to realize that our norms are not the norms everywhere, and it is more like a culture clash misunderstanding that we should see for what it is: more like the new business speak of the day (let’s circle back to that to touch base when we have more bandwidth and can do a deep dive to unlock synergies) that we will resist in our corner of the world, for our reasons (creativity, beauty, meaning), even as others just go on ahead with it, for their reasons (efficiency, efficiency, I’m sure there are others).

What are we doing here?

  1. The author spent reply after reply complaining that people were “speculating” about whether an LLM wrote the piece rather than discussing the substance of the article.
  2. Then he admitted (effectively) that an LLM wrote the piece.
  3. Yet he continues to reply self-servingly. E.g., “Irrespective of my disclosure faux pas, if we want to call it that, I’m struck by how little of this discussion is engaging the actual issue the piece is about.”

Why are you waving this off with clichés about “different norms of attribution for different folks”?

It’s very simple. People who are serious about ideas do their own thinking and their own writing. If a blog full of professional philosophers can’t hold to that, we’re all in a lot of trouble.

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago
Reply to  confused

People who are serious about ideas get thinking from others all over the place!

Sometimes they don’t do their own writing, and that tends to produce a bit of nausea in me, but I can usually get over it if they’re saying interesting enough things about the ideas (as was true in this case).

(This instance from a vice provost at my university was a really weird instance of that – sickening AI-ese throughout, but I still was interested in reading the whole thing: https://www.insidehighered.com/opinion/career-advice/advancing-administrator/2026/05/12/leading-people-who-dont-want-be-led )

Eric Steinhart
2 months ago
Reply to  confused

Here’s something simpler: philosophy deals with truth-claims. Does Kagan (or Kagan+AI) make sound points or not? The answer depends on evidence and reasoning.

And you make a false claim: “People who are serious about ideas do their own thinking and their own writing”. Mathematicians, physicists, biologists, medical doctors, are generally serious about solving problems in their fields. And they use whatever instruments will help them, including AI. They’re happy to use AI to find cures for cancer, or to prove the Riemann hypothesis.

Here’s a fallacy: (1) Kagan used AI to assist his arguments. (2) If somebody does that, then their arguments are unsound. (3) Therefore, Kagan’s arguments are unsound.

Kagan is arguing that philosophy students need to start to use AI, to understand it, to work with it, and so to be better employable. So he’s doing what he advocates.

Felix
Felix
2 months ago
Reply to  Eric Steinhart

I’m glad I read the comments first because here’s the thing: I won’t read AI-generated posts. Sorry, just won’t do it. If I know that something is AI-generated or “assisted” (how much “assistance” are we talking about and what does that look like?), I just mentally put it in my do-not-read pile—which is growing at an impressive rate and may eventually catch up to my to-read pile. If the ideas are worth sharing, then share them without the “AI” cruft. If you don’t, someone else will. And then the conversation will just carry on without you.

As to your point about mathematicians, physicists, biologists, medical doctors, etc. “using whatever instruments will help them, including AI,” this seems like a non sequitur to me. Using so-called “AI” as one would use a calculator (to expedite boring and repetitive tasks, allowing the researcher to focus on higher-level problems) is fine, and a different category to using “AI” in an attempt to do that higher-level work. If one wants to argue that the latter is the same as the former, then, heck, why even be a mathematician, physicist, biologist, medical doctor, or philosopher? Just ask ChatGPT.

Peter Finocchiaro
Peter Finocchiaro
2 months ago
Reply to  Felix

“If the ideas are worth sharing, then share them without the
‘AI’ cruft. If you don’t, someone else will. And then the conversation will just carry on without you.”

I am about as dogmatic as they come about the value of organic writing, but even I have to admit that the likely outcome is the exact opposite of this — those of us who refuse to read AI-generated posts will be the ones that the conversations are carrying on without. I’m a bit shocked, honestly, that some people still believe the opposite.

Felix
Felix
2 months ago

I would be happy to be left out of those conversations, to be honest. If I ever feel the urge to “get involved” with them, the barrier to entry is virtually zero—just fire up a chatbot and go. And then the real conversation can be commence: “AI”-generated material “responding” to “AI”-generated material, with the pesky meat machines then only serving as the medium through which the chatbots commune, like God intended.

Peter Finocchiaro
Peter Finocchiaro
2 months ago
Reply to  Felix

Enjoy your commune, I guess. But I’m not yet ready to give up on society.

Eric Steinhart
2 months ago
Reply to  Felix

You’re not doing philosophy. If you were, you’d be interested in validity, evidence, soundness, rationality, truth. Instead, you’re committed to an ideology. That’s politics, or maybe religion. But it’s not philosophy.

Felix
Felix
2 months ago
Reply to  Eric Steinhart

I am interested in those things, which is why I look to human beings making arguments, giving reasons, exchanging ideas, and so on. The moment you’ve surrendered that to become a mere meaty intermediary for what the machine “thinks,” whatever it is you end up doing, it’s not philosophy. It becomes one of those “not even wrong” situations; you’re supposedly saying something, but the value of engaging with you as though you are the one making arguments, giving reasons, etc. is lost—one might as well go directly to the same chatbot and cut out the middleman. After all, the middleman has chosen to place himself there, and since he values his reason so little, why should I value it?

Daniel Greco
2 months ago
Reply to  Felix

If you think AI only plays a role in mathematics “as one would use a calculator, to expedite boring and repetitive tasks, allowing the researcher to focus on higher-level problems”, it’s time to update:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-just-solved-an-80-year-old-erdos-problem-and-mathematicians-are-amazed/

Felix
Felix
2 months ago
Reply to  Daniel Greco

The AI did not prove that its approach is the best anyone can do, though. In fact, mathematician Will Sawin has already improved upon the AI’s grid.

lol

Several of the experts consulted by OpenAI noted that while the unit distance problem was well known, a proof that Erdős was right would have been far more mathematically rich than a counterexample. Such proofs usually necessitate totally new insights that can then be applied to a wider range of problems. The mathematical tools the AI used here are not novel, although their application in this domain appears to be. “The model did not invent something fundamentally new that nobody saw coming,” says Sébastien Bubeck, a mathematician leading OpenAI’s mathematical explorations. “It just executed like an amazing mathematician.”

It’s mimicking the way experts talk and you’re so damn impressed by that?

Wood also warns of AI’s less desirable traits as a mathematician, such as its tendency to present every idea as its own. “We recognized that there were very similar ideas in the literature that weren’t credited,” Wood says. “If a human had been familiar with those results and not credited them, then that would be professional malpractice.” She believes the community urgently needs to decide how to handle AI’s nonadherence to academic norms because things are changing fast.

Ah, so it’s able to mimic an unprofessional, potentially even unethical mathematician. In that case, it should have no trouble doing the same to professional philosophy.

David Wallace
David Wallace
2 months ago
Reply to  Felix

“It’s mimicking the way experts talk and you’re so damn impressed by that?”

It solved a (well known, non-contrived, longstanding) math problem that had not previously been solved. I for one am pretty impressed by that. It doesn’t mean that in due course AI will be able to do everything human mathematicians can do, but (e.g.) a machine that is really good at finding counterexamples to hypotheses where they exist would be profoundly useful in math in ways that go vastly beyond what a calculator does (which was where your engagement with Daniel Greco started) and vastly more than simply ‘mimicking the way experts talk’.

“it’s able to mimic an unprofessional, potentially even unethical mathematician.”

It’s not as if there is a huge vista of mathematical results that human mathematicians could have obtained decades ago if they were not held back by their pesky code of ethics. The citation problems with a math-doing AI are largely orthogonal to its mathematical competence. (I could see an argument that that’s less so in some areas of the humanities.)

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago
Reply to  David Wallace

I’m not sure I would say that the citation problems are exactly *orthogonal* to its mathematical competence. I think both of these features are consequences of the fact that it has some sort of distilled familiarity with the entire literature, and has it all in the background of what it’s doing, rather than being a search engine that has to go and find ideas to copy, and thus would have them in front of it to cite.

Its citation problems are comparable to the citation problems of humans who are relying on “well-known” results that are part of the mathematical folklore of their field, without being able to say where (or if) these results ever appeared in print.

Felix
Felix
2 months ago
Reply to  David Wallace

The citation problems with a math-doing AI are largely orthogonal to its mathematical competence.

If the purpose is to compare it to a mathematician, then it’s most certainly not orthogonal. If the purpose is to compare it to a calculator, then, yes, I would agree. But the entire argument above seems to be that what it’s doing goes beyond what a calculator does and that its output is much closer to the working of a mathematician. But that’s where its ability to mimic the way experts talk becomes crucial; because that’s what allows it to do anything that could be considered impressive at all. It executes like an “amazing mathematician,” not like an amazing calculator. If we’re to evaluate its output by comparison to the former rather than the latter, I think it’s entirely fair for considerations beyond mathematical competence to come into play.

But even focusing just on that competence, the execution is described as amazing not because it finds something entirely novel (as one commenter in the piece put it: “the model did not invent something fundamentally new that nobody saw coming”) but because it resembles how a competent mathematician would do it (in other words, because it mimics the way experts talk).

I appreciate Kenny’s point though that its poor citation practice could be explained by how it works with the information it was trained on and has available to use. A corollary to that is that it should be possible, in principle, to improve its citation practice by the framing of prompts. A framing that puts emphasis on the importance of citation might be able to generate outputs that are closer to desired practice. Whether this would come at the expense of its mathematical competence (or other characteristics) is unclear. But overall this suggests to me that a lot of what comes out will mimic the way experts talk and be conditioned on how input prompts were framed and where they directed the “focus”.

Anya
Anya
2 months ago
Reply to  Felix

Forgive me if this is changing the subject, but in the background of this discussing, I think you might be misunderstanding the difference between AI used for math and AI used for writing/chatbots (maybe not, in which case sorry).

How capable an AI is in a given domain depends on how well it is able to be independently rewarded for getting right answers in that domain. For chatbots, the post-training rewards involve whether humans think it sounds like a human. This means that sounding like a human is what it will get really good at.

For math, however, things are a bit different. Proofs are verifiable, so AI for math can be trained not on whether it sounds like it’s getting the right answer, as an expert might sound; AI for math can just be trained on the truth.

So the models being used for math are not really being trained to sound like a mathematical expert in the way that ChatGPT is trained to sound like a human. Rather, the AI models for math are being trained on whether they produce correct answers.

This is useful to keep in mind when thinking about domains where AI will and won’t improve. in genera, whether an AI is good in some scholarly domain or not will largely be an upshot of whether it can be trained on the verifiable truth (eg math, coding, some science) or not (eg coming up with novel ideas)

Hüseyin Güngör
2 months ago
Reply to  Anya

This is a good point and for demonstration of how AI is useful in mathematics, I recommend one take a look at videos which display how Terry Tao is integrating AI into his workflow such as this and this.

David Wallace
David Wallace
2 months ago
Reply to  Felix

We might be at cross purposes. I took the starting point to be this comment from your earlier post:
‘Using so-called “AI” as one would use a calculator (to expedite boring and repetitive tasks, allowing the researcher to focus on higher-level problems) is fine, and a different category to using “AI” in an attempt to do that higher-level work‘.

Daniel’s point (AIUI), and mine, is that there is strong evidence that AI will contribute, indeed to a limited extent is already contributing, to math in a way that goes far beyond that “expedite boring and repetitive tasks” paradigm. That can remain true even if AI by itself can never substitute for the whole mathematician.

Daniel Weltman
2 months ago

One difference between academic job postings and other job postings is that outside academia, it is very common for a job posting to be applicable to you even if it does not use language that is directly targeted at you. For instance, in academia, if the position is happy to hire someone with a philosophy degree, that will be in the ad. Outside academia, often a position will be very happy to hire someone with a philosophy degree but it won’t mention “philosophy” or related keywords anywhere in the posting.

Another difference between academic job postings and other job postings is that outside academia, people take the “requirements” of a job posting much less seriously. For instance, in academia, if the job posting says you need a PhD, then you will not be hired unless you have a PhD. Outside academia, if the job posting says you need 5 years of experience doing X, often they will hire someone with fewer than 5 years of experience doing X. Often the “requirements” in academic job postings are a list of things various people think they want from an ideal candidate, but the person or people doing the hiring don’t care about all those things, or even the people who put those things on the list often come to realize they don’t care about those things if those get in the way of hiring a promising candidate, etc.

So, when this post says “In a June 25 snapshot that philosopher Charles Lassiter and I conducted, we examined 1,815 currently open roles across 11 AI labs. None required a philosophy credential” I am not convinced this is very relevant. Jobs like “policy analyst” might be ideal for someone with a philosophy degree, even if they do not mention nor require a philosophy degree in the ad.

Daniel Hoek
2 months ago

The fact that this burgeoning new industry considers highly advanced philosophical skills important to their business is surely interesting and newsworthy — both for philosophy PhD students and those who want to work in AI. Nobody ever said there was a pipeline… An added benefit of this publicity is that it may do a bit to gainsay the notion that philosophy is just for dreamers.

Vareni
Vareni
2 months ago

Loved the article and the nuance! As someone nearing the completion of their PhD (with a lot of stress and mental health damage in bag) and dreading the vacancy that comes with it, this is one article that spoke truth to power.

Personally, this is an issue that I have never seen addressed. I know for a fact that many scholars struggle with this crisis where they have the skill but have no clue how to translate it into real-world job market requirements. A majority of philosophy undergrads switch immediately after due to the same crisis.

This article, for me, has been an epiphany. From someone who was considering dumping almost a decade of her work and passion down the drain, I know now what exactly was missing and I am incredibly grateful to the author for providing that clarity. Most of us Philosophy graduates in India (and I am sure, elsewhere globally) don’t even know what all pathways there are available to philosophy graduates. Hell, I have come to know about more options through this single article than I did in a decade of being in philosophy and talking to professors and seniors and my peers. And there are no placement cells or career counselling options available to a vast majority (at least in India). The hopelessness is crazy and I think this article gives just enough clarity and not blind hope to make someone understand exactly what is needed.

As for the AI-assisted editing – the outcry over it totally misses the point and ramifications of the article and that should be a way more serious ethical issue for anybody reading this (especially philosophers) than the use of AI.

Cristina Ann DiGiacomo
2 months ago

Aaron! Thank you for this research and surfacing a deeper understanding of the media’s message. Every time one of these articles comes out, I get text messages from friends who seem very happy for me since they know I’ve been teaching Philosophy for the workplace, and now more specifically, in the AI field, for years. I want to offer all philosophers another option. Go out on your own! I have built an entire company based on my AI philosophy corpus and framework, and then built tech around it. While I completely understand that is something philosophers may not have an appetite for, I can tell you I have never been more actualized in my thinking, in my acts, and in my provocations as I am right now. I think also this comes down to the age-old problem of ideas the public have about what Philosophy is. There are a lot of myths that have yet to be busted. I experienced this when teaching business leaders about Philosophy and using concepts for the purpose of leadership development, employee engagement, and organizational culture building. Philosophy is so applicable, as you say Aaron, in so many ways, but companies have yet to understand that because they are built on legacy thinking – people need to be boxed into a role they understand. Anyway, great article, keep up the good work!!!

Ancient Philosopher
Ancient Philosopher
2 months ago

No doubt the general skills philosophers have are useful for AI firms; some philosophers surely have special technical knowledge in logic or formal epistemology or ethics that is useful for a business like that, and probably many other sorts of business. But what is interesting is the disproportionate amount of press and media work these philosophers who work for AI firms do. I wonder how much of this is ethics-washing or even ‘intellectualism washing’. These firms are doing their best to present themselves as Bell Labs or something. That distracts us from the very real and pressing harms these firms are doing.

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago

I think this cynical read is not justified. These companies were hiring philosophers for years before anyone thought to publicize the fact that they were hiring philosophers. Amanda Askell is not just some sort of “-washing” for Anthropic – she has real authority for important work and is very respected by the people in tech but outside the company who are following the progress of AI.

I suspect that when a company is prominently hiring in “AI Ethics”, it is much more plausible that they are engaged in some sort of ethics-washing, but these other hires are motivated by something that people at these companies are interested in doing.

(But as you note, none of that should distract us from the real issues around what the companies are doing – we can recognize that a company genuinely cares about the philosophy of mind and consciousness and *also* contracts with Meta to run a datacenter that spews particulate emissions in poor neighborhoods of Memphis. For that matter, we shouldn’t idealize Bell Labs and forget what sort of company AT&T was even while it was funding people to identify the cosmic microwave background and develop information theory.)

Ancient Philosopher
Ancient Philosopher
2 months ago
Reply to  Kenny Easwaran

Thanks for this! No doubt I’m being cynical! I don’t know AA personally, but she seems eminently well qualified for the work she does; likewise HL. I’m sure they’ll do valuable philosophical work in a corporate context, while adding monetary value to these companies. I suppose the managers of these firms can have more than one motivation for hiring philosophers: they could be interested in ethical questions about AI snd metaphysical questions, and think that philosophy adds value to the company and also interested in having philosophers on staff to make their firms appear more intellectually driven than money driven or allow them to do lots of press so that newspapers will write these ‘man bites dog’ stories about the job prospects of philosophers. But you’re right- I have no evidence for my reading, other than cynicism.

BRYAN FRANCES
BRYAN FRANCES
2 months ago

For me, most of the “But he used AI in his post–and that’s bad” comments are quite similar to my complaints about rap music, hip hop, today’s pop music, and so on: they are remarks from people stuck in the past. Some AI-assisted essays are shit because of the reliance on AI, but Kagan’s post obviously isn’t one of those.

You all remind me of my grandmother, who insisted that everyone really needs to be expert at cursive writing. It’s time to get over the bias against using AI for writing assistance. Just because it CAN go bad doesn’t mean it ALWAYS goes bad.

Felix
Felix
2 months ago
Reply to  BRYAN FRANCES

To embrace the future, in lieu of reading your comment, I will have AI summarize it for me. Sure, it’s a short comment, but I’m lazy. And then I’ll have it respond to that summary. Your chatbot can get in touch with my chatbot and then we’ll have an enriching, human conversation. Or maybe the point is that conversation will go the way of cursive? Who knows?! Not me; I haven’t read a thing of what you’ve written.

Runa
Runa
2 months ago
Reply to  BRYAN FRANCES

“Stuck in the past?” “Grandmother”? I think people passing out jobs for training AI, or fine-tuning AI should ensure 50% of their hires are over 60 years in age. (They should be philosophers who give up their tenure track academic jobs to fresh PhDs.) This, so as to ensure against ageism bias getting built into our AIs. If your vision of the future manifests, we need to be vigilant against unwelcome biases because whichever ones are in there will get ramped-up … almost literally.

Runa
Runa
2 months ago
Reply to  Runa

In other words, are you make your point in another way?

What was in the past, per se, is not automatically bad; what is new, per se, is not automatically good. This, especially, when “the new” (or part of it) is heavily incentivized by the prospect of unworldly wealth and has heavily externalized costs.

Runa
Runa
2 months ago
Reply to  Runa

able to

David Wallace
David Wallace
2 months ago
Reply to  Runa

I believe this would be illegal in the US.

runa
runa
2 months ago
Reply to  David Wallace

yes, of course. it was meant as a joke. (it was not a very good one, i admit.) no doubt there are other ways to get rid of bad sorts of bias in both AIs and human beings, though i don’t think it’s easy in either case, and i worry that when we do all start using AIs all the time to talk at each other (which outputs are then used to train other AI) it will tend to stultify those processes that enable cultural change rather than speed them up and we will end up stuck in a web of prejudices coded in the language our AI pals and we use. this is just a suspicion though; i can’t defend it right now.

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago
Reply to  BRYAN FRANCES

I think these are a bit more like “but he didn’t capitalize anything or use proper punctuation, and used singular they!” or (in an earlier century) “but he wrote in the vernacular instead of Latin!” It’s a mix of complaints about style, including both ones that are clearly just personal preference and ones that involve really obscuring communication for some target audiences.

(There’s a separate issue about substance. I’m fairly confident that all of the substance of this post comes from actual human-authored documents, and the author didn’t just tell a bot to write a post without bothering to check any of its work. But some people let the style confuse them about the substance, and they’re making the same sort of mistake that a lot of people did 20 years ago when they said you could never trust Wikipedia, or anything you read online. You can in fact trust a lot of that stuff, but you need to take care, and some people do in fact take care.)

ERW
ERW
2 months ago
Reply to  Kenny Easwaran

Conversely, I think people have concrete complaints about the author deliberately misleading them and your response of “you should get with the times and accept being misled” is disingenuous.

Jamie Dreier
Jamie Dreier
2 months ago
Reply to  ERW

I would say it is fairly (by which I mean ‘extremely’) unlikely that Kenny is being disingenuous.

Kenny Easwaran
2 months ago
Reply to  ERW

Read my comments in this thread again. I’m not saying “you should get with the times and accept being misled”. My first paragraph is actually *endorsing* the complaints about the writing style of AI-generated text, not dismissing them.

(The thing I *am* dismissing is the claim that it’s reasonable to just ignore useful factual information about the current job market because you have to deal with a layer of AI-generated text to get at this information that someone else has usefully gathered.)

David Wallace
David Wallace
2 months ago
Reply to  Kenny Easwaran

One awkwardness is that, while I agree “the text here was written by AI” is not dispositive that the content is bad, it’s a pretty good heuristic that it will be bad, at least right now. I tend not to read things that are obviously AI written not out of principle (as some people here seem to) but because it’s one of the many heuristic filters I use to work out what’s worth my time.

Nick
Nick
2 months ago
Reply to  BRYAN FRANCES

Bryan, are you aware that learning cursive writing is highly correlated with strong academic performance, and that 25 US states have signed your grandmother’s recommendation into law?

We have GOT to stop with this “Stuck in the past” nonsense. Human societies make huge mistakes in innovation. Human societies make great strides forward in innovation. The fact that something happened in the past is neither a reason for nor against its value. Assess the thing on its merits, not on the age of the person it “reminds you of”.

David Wallace
David Wallace
2 months ago
Reply to  Nick

“learning cursive writing is highly correlated with strong academic performance”

This seems a rather strong overstatement of the case – there are some suggestive studies but educational interventions are notoriously difficult to study rigorously.

MrMr
MrMr
2 months ago

It’s pretty obvious on its face that a recent micro-trend in sensational headlines doesn’t actually mean that AI firms are hiring philosophers in numbers large enough to represent a career path, and the delivery of an obvious message with the vapid drama of AI prose is annoying. But even when the topline message is obvious, it can still be nice, and helpful, to actually collect some data and do an analysis, and I did learn something from it, even if that was actually adjusting my estimates up rather than down (5% of 1,815 roles, even if most are surely not going to philosophers, is still much more than I would have thought). So, I appreciated that.

Noah Gordon
Noah Gordon
2 months ago

I also worry that potential philosophy majors and PhD candidates will be snookered by these flashy headlines based on a handful of hires at top AI firms. I think there are good reasons to think that philosophers will not long have an advantage (if they even currently do) over business or law types in getting these more policy / governance oriented roles. It’s also worth noting that even for jobs with titles involving “AI Safety” or “AI Alignment”, which are mentioned here as being among the 5% of most philosopher-friendly roles of the 1,815 surveyed, these generally have technical requirements which would rule out the vanilla philosopher from consideration. For example, the Anthropic AI Safety Fellowship, which one might expect to be among the most philosopher-friendly positions, has fluency in Python as its only substantive requirement. (Of course, in the non-ac market, you don’t always need to strictly meet every requirement, but it would be foolish to think that you could get a job listing a specific programming language without having any programming experience at all.) I do worry that in many of these high-profile cases, the ethicists are essentially being hired as a reputational frontispiece. After all, it’s not like ethics just suddenly became applicable to business once AI was invented. Business ethics isn’t big business, and I predict AI ethics won’t be either.

Runa
Runa
2 months ago
Reply to  Noah Gordon

It’s odd to think of lack of experience in python as being a real obstacle when chatgpt or claude or gemini will happily explain in detail exactly how to create something using python such that people who have never coded can easily follow the directions.

On the other hand the likelyhood of for-profits using ethicists as mere frontiespieces is as you say, high. At least initially. There needs to be pressure on govts to require thoughtfully designed high standards in AI integration into products and services. If anyone gets serious about this (which I expect will happen, is happening some) , then maybe there will be a market for AI ethicists to do their work. I don’t think the case is parallel to the case of the market for business ethicists, but that’s an interesting question to raise!

Richard Moore
Richard Moore
2 months ago

Reading many of these comments, I’m embarrassed for our profession. Someone from the real world comes to explain to us that the AI boon is not going to magically solve the problems with the philosophy job market. The upshot is that, while it’s true that there are opportunities for philosophers, philosophy graduates will still need to think about how to pitch and present themselves; how to market their skills; and how they can engage with the practical issues central to tech company concerns, in ways that will make them hireable. This is an invaluable lesson and one for which we should be grateful.

Our response? To ignore the real issues in order to focus on his use of an AI editor. People have made a deliberate choice to derail the discussion; to dismiss what Aaron said because his values don’t align with ours. As another commentary pointed out, this is a reminder that academic norms differ from those elsewhere. But instead of recognising that, we resist it and insist on doing things on our terms. But this attitude is exactly the attitude that Kagan is warning against. To be marketable to the tech industry, philosophers need to figure out what they want, and offer it to them. We don’t just get to insist on doing things our way, and assume that salvation will follow. Let’s hope that our graduating students are more flexible in their thinking than the people writing in these comments.

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people?

ERW
ERW
2 months ago
Reply to  Richard Moore

I don’t think anyone here has ignored the “real issues” (which on your analysis is apparently how to sell out to tech companies?). Even if you broadly agree with the author’s conclusions, that doesn’t preclude thinking he shouldn’t have used AI.

86
0
Click here to commentx
()
x